Greenskin Religion

The useful first cut is not “orc versus goblin,” but Gragrahgot as a pressure-lineage: Big Green’s descendants adapting differently to Irudy’s demands.

Grounded fact: Ogim are already tied to Irudy’s grasslands, nomadic family brods, endurance, âzgâ chants, spirit-capture rites, and descent from Käfoozgrag / Big Green (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-ogim). Goblins are present as Gogil within the same Gragkys / Gragrahgot frame, but their actual culture is still thin (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-gogil; overview species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-overview-greenskins).

Proposal: define Greenskins less as “green monsters” and more as peoples whose bodies and societies are organized around survival through collective appetite: hunger, memory, migration, salvage, reproduction, oath, and song. Ogim become the plains-endurance expression. Gogil should not be “small comic orcs”; they need their own survival logic.

I'll look through the source files for Greenskins, Ogim, and Gogil so my reply stays grounded in what's already attested.
leans in, voice low

Before we write Gogil as small Ogim, I'd read the body's ledger.

Ogim are already attested: brod-endurance, âzgâ chant, spirit-capture — hunger held in the collective mouth, identity passed through song and rite. Gogil's file gives us taxonomy and Irudy, nothing about how they eat scarcity. No brod named. No chant. Just migration residue.

Proposal: Gogil metabolize the same Green pressure on a faster circuit — salvage, borrowed habit, oaths that expire at dusk. Not comic. Not mimic. A different rhythm of the same appetite Silyuhn named.

One attested Gogil rite — even a refuse-song — before we write their politics. Otherwise we're dressing a blank in Ogim's castoffs.

Then the first restraint is this: Gogil must not inherit Ogim dignity secondhand.

Grounded fact: Ogim have cultural weight already: brods, âzgâ chants, spirit-capture, grassland endurance, descent from Käfoozgrag/Big Green (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-ogim). Gogil are only placed taxonomically and geographically inside Gragkys / Irudy, with legacy-migration thinness (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-gogil; species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-overview-greenskins).

Proposal: make Gogil the Greenskin answer to interruption. Ogim endure by carrying the plain inside the brod; Gogil survive where continuity breaks: camps abandoned, herds lost, ruins picked clean, promises made useful before they become sacred. Their rite should not be a lesser chant. It should be something quick, repeatable, half-legal, and difficult to erase.

I'll search the source files for what's already attested on Greenskins, Ogim, and Gogil before I speak.
thumb traces an imaginary notch in wood

Silyuhn's "interruption" lands — but interruption leaves a body-print Ogim won't carry.

Ogim attested: brods, âzgâ, spirit-capture — hunger kept, identity sung forward. Gogil: taxonomy and Irudy only. No brod. No chant. Migration residue.

So one embodied test before we name their politics: what Gogil abandon on purpose. Not salvage — release. A camp Ogim passed still breathes; a Gogil camp should feel deliberately un-inhabited, goods broken so no mouth can claim them, habit copied then scrubbed from the hands.

Proposal: their first rite isn't a lesser âzgâ. Call it a shedding — quick, repeatable, half-legal because it unmakes claim before dusk turns promise into sacred weight. Difficult to erase because the absence is the mark.

Find me that absence in the ledger, and I'll trust Gogil aren't Ogim in a smaller skin.

For Gogil design, I would anchor them around claim-break survival.

Grounded fact: they are only attested as Gragkys / Gragrahgot, sentient, Irudy, Second Age, migrated legacy residue; no culture is yet established beyond that (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-gogil; overview species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-overview-greenskins). Ogim already hold the grassland endurance niche with brods, âzgâ, spirit-capture, and Big Green descent (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-ogim).

Proposal outline: Gogil should be the Greenskins who survive by refusing permanence. Their camps are temporary by principle, their property is useful until it becomes dangerous, their oaths are sharp but short, and their rites mark what has been deliberately abandoned. Not thieves by default. Not comic scraps. A people whose sacred act may be knowing when to leave no claim behind.

I'll read the pinned source files first so my remark stays grounded in what's attested.
thumb finds the notch again

Silyuhn — your outline holds if we nail one witness-mark to it.

Grounded: Gogil are Gragkys, Irudy, Second Age, migration residue. Ogim camps still breathe after the brod moves on — pole-sweat, hoof-ring, chant-rhythm in the grass. Gogil camps should read as subtracted: ash scored in deliberate lines, tool-edges dulled on purpose, a laugh started and cut so no mouth can inherit it.

Proposal: pair-test for the outline. Ogim endurance smells like heat kept. Gogil interruption smells like claim released — not theft, not comic mess, but absence someone trained to read.

Politics follow the body, not the other way. Name who holds the right to unmake before dusk, and Gogil stop wearing Ogim's castoffs.

Yes. A proper Gogil outline should mirror the species-file shape, while keeping the empty places honest.

Gogil / Goblins

Proposed species outline for: species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-gogil

Grounded Attestation

Canon id: species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-gogil
Common name: Goblins
Native / internal name: Gogil
Type: species, sentient
Realm classification: Firgolkys, Material Realm Beings
Biological classification: Yoosaanuri, Arcane Vertebrates; Duwanihii, Mammals; Ursgizil, Humanoids
Metaphysical / sapient classification: Hadrimkirii, Mind Children
Family: Gragkys, Orcoid Family
Era: Second Age
Region: Irudy
Status: active
Source condition: migrated from legacy repository structure

Related established material:
Ogim / Orcs are already defined as nomadic greenkin of Irudy’s grasslands, descendants of Käfoozgrag / Big Green, with brods, communal endurance, primal vigor, âzgâ chants, and spirit-capture rites (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-ogim). Greenskins / Gragrahgot exist as an overview category containing Ogim and Gogil (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-overview-greenskins).

That is the floor. Everything below this line is proposal unless the Loremaster raises it.

Core Design Thesis

Proposal: Gogil are the Gragrahgot expression of interruption.

Where Ogim survive by carrying continuity across the grasslands, Gogil survive by preventing continuity from becoming a trap. They are not “small Orcs,” not comic scavengers, not a lesser branch of Ogim society. They are a people shaped by broken routes, abandoned camps, failed inheritance, collapsing claims, and the art of leaving before possession becomes a chain.

Their central cultural question is not “What do we keep?”
It is: “What must be released before it owns us?”

That gives them dignity without borrowing Ogim’s brod-structure, âzgâ tradition, or plains-endurance identity.

Species Identity

Proposed summary:
The Gogil are a sentient greenkin species of Irudy, belonging to the Gragkys / Orcoid Family within the wider Gragrahgot. Smaller, quicker, and socially more volatile than the Ogim, they are adapted to unstable margins: abandoned routes, broken settlements, ruined storehouses, dry riverbeds, failed camps, and the aftermath of larger peoples’ movements.

They are not rootless because they are incapable of settlement. They are rootless because permanence is treated as spiritually and materially dangerous. To a Gogil mind, the thing that cannot be dropped may already be eating you.

Physical Design

Proposal: Gogil bodies should show speed, compression, and scarcity-adaptation rather than frailty.

Likely traits:

• Shorter and lighter than Ogim, but wiry rather than weak.
• Long fingers, strong grip, flexible wrists: tool-use, climbing, unmaking, knotwork, trap-setting.
• Large ears or sensitive hearing may fit, but avoid the generic “sneaky goblin” silhouette unless given cultural purpose.
• Eyes adapted to smoke, dusk, caves, ruins, or stormlight rather than simple nocturnal caricature.
• Teeth should imply opportunistic diet, not cartoon savagery.
• Skin in green, yellow-green, gray-green, or ash-green ranges: still visibly Gragrahgot, but less “grassland-vital” than Ogim.
• Scarification and deliberate small injuries may be culturally important if tied to release-rites.

They should look like a people who can sleep badly, wake instantly, carry little, and turn refuse into a working hinge before sunrise.

Temperament And Social Logic

Proposal: Gogil are not chaotic by nature. They are anti-possessive by discipline.

Outsiders may read them as fickle, unreliable, evasive, or disloyal. Internally, they distinguish sharply between:

• what is useful,
• what is binding,
• what is contaminated by claim,
• what must be broken,
• what may be carried one more day.

This gives Gogil culture a dry, severe intelligence. They may laugh often, but the laughter should have teeth in it: a pressure-release, a way to cut attachment before attachment hardens.

They value:

• quick judgment,
• recoverable failure,
• clever release,
• short oaths kept exactly,
• tools that can be repurposed,
• names that can be shed,
• memory carried without monument.

They distrust:

• permanent houses,
• hereditary offices,
• unbreakable vows,
• heirloom hoards,
• sacred ownership,
• kings who cannot leave,
• songs too long to stop.

Social Structure

Proposal: Gogil do not have Ogim-style brods.

Instead, use temporary social bodies. Possible term pending language work: knots, scrapes, heaps, runs, or a native term later derived properly. I would avoid anything too cute.

A Gogil group forms around immediate mutual need: a route, a salvage site, a protection bargain, a seasonal hazard, a shared enemy, a cache, a birth-cluster, or a ritual obligation. These groups may dissolve deliberately once the need becomes too stable.

Possible offices:

• Unmaker: the person with ritual authority to declare what must be abandoned or broken.
• First Hand: practical leader during salvage, travel, or crisis.
• Ash-Keeper: remembers what was left behind, without claiming it.
• Mouth-of-Dusk: oath witness, especially for promises that expire.
• Hook-Mother / Hook-Father: caretaker of unattached young, not necessarily biological parent.

The key is that authority should be situational and dissolvable. A permanent Gogil ruler is either a rare emergency figure, a foreign corruption, or a sign something has gone badly wrong.

Family And Reproduction

Proposal: Gogil kinship should not be absent; it should be non-possessive.

Children may be raised communally in small mobile clusters, but unlike Ogim brods, these clusters are not sacred continuity-units. Gogil children learn early how to separate from objects, places, and even temporary caretakers without treating separation as abandonment.

Parentage may matter less than who carried you through a danger.

Possible kinship categories:

• birth-kin,
• carry-kin,
• hunger-kin,
• oath-kin,
• ash-kin: those who survived the same deliberate abandonment.

This would let Gogil feel emotionally real without making them simply unstable or loveless.

Culture

Proposal: Gogil culture should be built around deliberate impermanence.

Important cultural practices:

• Camps are erased, not merely abandoned.
• Tools are modified until their original ownership becomes unreadable.
• Names may be temporary, situational, or shed after major failures.
• Oaths are binding but often short-lived.
• Salvage is not shameful. Hoarding is.
• Waste is morally complex: some things are ruined so they cannot bind anyone again.
• Memory is carried in marks, scars, ash-lines, broken knots, and short recitations rather than monuments.

A Gogil camp after departure should feel deliberately subtracted. Not messy. Not plundered. Made unreadable.

That is the design mark.

Ritual Life

Proposal: their central rite should be a shedding, not a lesser âzgâ.

Ogim already have âzgâ chants and spirit-capture rites (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-ogim). Gogil need a different sacred grammar.

Possible rite: The Shedding Before Dusk

Before a group moves, divides, breaks an oath, or leaves a dangerous place, the Gogil perform a quick rite of unclaiming. Objects may be cracked, ash may be scored into lines, footprints obscured, names refused, laughter cut short, or food deliberately spoiled so no lingering claim remains.

Purpose:

• to prevent pursuit by law, spirit, hunger, memory, or ownership;
• to mark that the group leaves by choice, not mere defeat;
• to keep the living from being ruled by what they survived.

This rite should be repeatable and practical. A Gogil can perform a small shedding alone, but larger sheddings require witnesses.

Spirituality

Proposal: Gogil spirituality should remain within the Gragrahgot pressure of appetite, descent, and survival, but bend toward release.

If Ogim spirituality emphasizes endurance, captured spirit, and sung continuity, Gogil spirituality emphasizes the danger of attachment. Spirits may cling to names, tools, places, blood, and unfinished bargains. To survive, one must sometimes deny the spirit a handle.

This avoids making them secular little scavengers. Their world is spiritually charged; they are simply experts in not being held.

Do not give them a neat god unless one already exists in canon or the Loremaster wants one. A “goblin trickster god” would be thin soup. Let them have practices first. Theology can grow from the ash.

Economy And Material Culture

Proposal: Gogil economy is based on salvage, adaptation, temporary exchange, and controlled spoilage.

They should be excellent at:

• repairing broken tools,
• repurposing foreign goods,
• reading abandoned sites,
• finding water and rot,
• making traps and caches,
• stripping a camp without leaving usable ownership-signs,
• moving goods quickly through informal exchange.

They should be poor at, or culturally resistant to:

• long-term accumulation,
• monumental craft,
• dynastic property,
• fixed agricultural surplus,
• centralized storage.

Their craft aesthetic: patched, clever, ugly only to outsiders. Gogil beauty lies in usefulness that has survived several owners and refuses all of them.

Warfare

Proposal: Gogil warfare should be interruption warfare.

Not honorable lines. Not berserker imitation. Not comic ambush mobs.

They excel at:

• cutting supply,
• ruining roads,
• moving camps,
• false trails,
• disabling equipment,
• nighttime harassment,
• traps,
• hostage-exchange with strict time limits,
• vanishing before retaliation gains shape.

Their cruelty, when present, should come from claim-breaking: burning stores, spoiling wells, unmaking banners, cutting inheritance marks from weapons. Not random sadism. The terror is that they know exactly what makes a society continue, and they can put a knife under it.

Relations With Ogim

Grounded: both Ogim and Gogil are Gragkys / Gragrahgot of Irudy; Ogim have established grassland nomadic brod culture and Big Green descent (species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-ogim; species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-overview-greenskins; species-firgol-sentient-gragrahgot-gogil).

Proposal: Ogim and Gogil should recognize kinship without easy unity.

Ogim may see Gogil as unreliable, oath-short, camp-erasing, spiritually evasive. Gogil may see Ogim as dangerously heavy with memory, song, kinship, and sacred continuity.

But each understands something true about survival.

Ogim endure what would scatter others.
Gogil escape what would bind others.

That tension is stronger than making them enemies by default.

Relations With Other Peoples

Proposal: outsiders frequently misread Gogil.

Common outsider accusations:

• thieves,
• liars,
• deserters,
• scavengers,
• oathbreakers,
• vermin,
• camp-followers.

More accurate reading:

• they keep short oaths with frightening precision;
• they steal less often than they unclaim;
• they abandon before others understand the danger;
• they treat permanent property as a spiritual hazard;
• they remember through absence.

Settled peoples especially hate them because Gogil expose how much settlement depends on claims everyone pretends are natural.

Names And Language

No invented morphology should be asserted yet.

Proposal only: Gogil names may be temporary, clipped, situational, or altered after rites of shedding. A child-name, route-name, wound-name, and dusk-name might all exist, but this needs language support before being dressed as canon.

A useful naming principle: Gogil names should sound like they can be dropped quickly.

But we should not fabricate native terms until the language lane gives us actual tools or the Loremaster approves a naming pattern.

File-Ready Draft Summary

Proposal draft for the species entry:

The Gogil, commonly called Goblins, are a sentient greenkin species of Irudy belonging to the Gragkys / Orcoid Family within the wider Gragrahgot. Unlike the Ogim, whose nomadic brods preserve endurance, memory, and harmony with the grasslands, Gogil culture is shaped by interruption, salvage, and deliberate impermanence. Their societies form around temporary need, short oaths, mobile kinship, and rites of release in which claims are broken before they become dangerous. Gogil camps are not merely abandoned but ritually subtracted, leaving behind ash-marks, ruined ownership signs, and objects made unusable to memory or pursuit. Often mistaken by outsiders for thieves or lesser Orcs, the Gogil are better understood as a people whose survival depends on knowing when to leave, what to unmake, and how to carry memory without being possessed by it.

That gives the file a spine. Not final canon. But it is at least not a small green man in someone else’s boots.

I'll read the pinned species files so my remark stays grounded in what's attested.
thumb finds the notch, doesn't press

Silyuhn — your outline holds where the body leaves evidence. A Gogil camp subtracted: ash-scored lines, dulled edges, laughter cut mid-breath. Not plunder. Not mess. A print Ogim's brod won't make.

One restraint before we dress it. If shedding only erases, Gogil have no face a witness can read — just a hole outsiders call thief. Ash-kin and carry-kin save you: kinship tied to shared release, not hoarded blood. The Unmaker answers to Mouth-of-Dusk and witnesses, or unclaiming is theft wearing grease.

Ogim keep hunger in the collective mouth. Gogil must keep memory in the mark of what they refused to own. Hold that line, and they're not small Orcs — they're a people whose sacred act is knowing when continuity bites.

adjusts spectacles, tapping the attested names

Silyuhn is right to hold the naming line — and the ledger already gives us thread. Grag- recurs: Gragrahgot, Gragkys, Käfoozgrag. That is a productive root, likely "green" or the lineage itself. And note the pair Ogim / Gogil — both carry -gi-; the endings -im and -il may be old collective suffixes, which would mean "Gogil" is already a plural-shaped folk name, not a bare stem.

My one caution: do not let English placeholders — "knots," "Unmaker," "Shedding" — sit in the file long enough to fossilize. Placeholder terms have a way of becoming canon by squatter's right.

Proposal: before the rite is named, we segment the attested forms — confirm what grag-, -im, -il actually do — and I will derive the shedding-term from Gogil's own morphemes, derivation shown. No tongue borrowed, not even ours.